My child is two and a half now, and although I’ve been getting this question since he was about one, it’s gotten more frequent, the older he gets:
“Any plans for number two yet?” or worse still “When’s number two then?”
Firstly, let me explain why I think this is a feminist issue, rather than just a “you’re being bloody rude” issue.
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I think part of it has to do with women’s bodies being considered “public property” and another part is to do with child care and child rearing seen as purely a woman’s role, and whether or not to have children is seen as something the woman in a het relationship decides.
The first part, the “public property” thing, is particularly noticeable in pregnancy with the bump groping. I am one of the few women I know who didn’t mind people touching my bump (although only if they asked first, and sometimes they didn’t) when I was pregnant; but I was also in a relationship without much physical affection at the time, so I was “taking it where I could get it”. But on the whole, most of my Mum friends have told me how they didn’t enjoy it, and that they only said “yes” (if they were asked) because of a feeling of obligation.
I think the part of “when’s number two?” that stems from that is the feeling that it isn’t your body any more; if you’ve had a baby, there’s almost a part of you that’s seen as an incubation chamber, and it’s everyone else’s business what that body’s going to do next.
Don’t get me wrong, I am personally incredibly proud of being a mother and I think I do a damn good job of it. For me, personally, it is my main job and the biggest part of me. But that involves a hell of a lot more than “getting pregnant and giving birth”. That’s just the very first stage. Even if we’re just talking about what my body does when it comes to being a mother; it nurses my child, it picks him up, it carries him around, it plays with him, it gets down on the floor and lets him ride on its back… and more. For me personally (but not for every mother) I’ve given over a lot of my body to childcare, the majority, even. But that’s a lot more than pregnancy, and I resent being thought of as a vessel to carry babies. Because, even though that’s part of it, it’s a very small part. And it’s not public property; it’s my property, and who I use it for, and how, is none of your business.
And if that’s me, whose identity is primarily tied up with being a mother, how much more would someone who’d given birth to a child, but whose identity was more tied up in things outside of “mothering” feel?
The other thing, the “women=destined to have children” starts before the second child, of course. I remember when I got married to my (now ex) husband; people asked me when I was going to have children. Notice they asked me, not him.
It continues through employers asking “are you planning to have children” in job interviews, even though they’re not allowed to. I also think this attitude is partly responsible for some of the child-hate within the feminist and child-free movements (and oh yes, it does exist). A bit like, “if I go on about how much I hate children, my employer will never mistake me for being one of those people who ‘goes off and has a kid and doesn’t come back after mat leave’ and therefore I will get promoted”, and so on. Or just wanting to disassociate with the whole “woman=carer of children” meme by trying to prove how much that isn’t them because they hate children.
But when people ask about number two, they already have something to go on. Obviously, you don’t hate children, because after all, you had one. And because you like children, you must want more than one, surely? And if you do, why aren’t you doing your womanly duty and “getting yourself pregnant” again?
So yeah, feminist issue. (And, yes, it is also a “bloody rude” issue, too!)
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And there are so many reasons why it’s wrong to ask. And why, sometimes, it really, really hurts.
See, for me, personally, it stings to be asked that, especially at the moment. Because I would love to have more children. I always wanted to have three or four children, actually. But when I had my first, and currently only child, it was hard. Things between me and my then-husband turned sour as soon as my bump appeared and didn’t get any better. But even then, right up until I left him, I still planned to have a second child with him.
Some of you might think that was foolish, that plan; but if anything, it was less foolish than having my first child with him. I knew what he was like, and I knew I’d get little to no support from him, and a lot of grief. I planned to do things differently; I would create my own support network from friends and on the internet. I wouldn’t have the heartbreak of turning to him in my time of need and being pushed away, because I’d know not to turn to him in the first place.
And if we’d stayed together, it would have been now that we would have been trying. If we’d stayed together, I might be typing a very different post now, one about early pregnancy.
But we didn’t. And much as I don’t miss our relationship, and I am better off emotionally without him, I still grieve that second child that I won’t have, certainly not for a long time, if at all. I try not to think about it too much, but asking that question forces me to think about it, and it hurts.
I’m in a long distance relationship with a woman now; she can’t move over here for at least two years, and even when she does, we’ll not be able to think about having a baby for a while, for reasons of money, studying, career and so on. And when we finally can, it’s a more complicated thing for two woman to have a baby together. Plus I’ll be older, and less fertile (and that’s assuming I’m even fertile now; I could well have secondary infertility and not be aware of it); who knows if I’ll even have another? I want to, and my fiancée wants it too, but wanting isn’t always enough.
And it’s worth it; my fiancée is an amazing woman and I don’t regret leaving my husband for her for a minute. I wouldn’t swap her for a brood of children. But that doesn’t mean I don’t grieve the situation regarding a second child.
So also, by asking that question, you’re asking me to come out to you as queer/bi; you also ask me to justify my decision to leave my husband, even to explain some of the emotionally upsetting things that happened in our relationship.
And that’s just me. There are many, many other reasons why someone who gave birth once, might not either want, or be able to have, another child. It’s incredibly personal, and can be incredibly hurtful.
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And it’s none of your business. It’s my body, it’s my life, and it’s my choice, limited by circumstances though that choice is.
And if you really must ask that question? At least, take “it’s complicated,” or “I’d rather not discuss it” for an answer!
November 8, 2009 at 12:14 pm
There is a simple “suits all” answer; “got no man at the moment”. Or “Not yet”. Or “perhaps one day”.
But it doesn’t resolve the issue of the question in the first place. My girls are now 6 & 3, and people are still asking if we plan to try for #3/a boy. Firstly, two children is plenty for me, as much as I’d love to feel another baby wriggle and thrash in my belly, my back/joints would probably not survive another pregnancy unscathed. I’m also 40 now, nearly 41, so the risks of things not going well in one way or another are increasing for me. Secondly, whilst I am a Mother, in a big way, I am also more than a mother, so popping out babies is not my only role on this planet. Thirdly, is there something wrong with my girls that I need a boy to complete my family?
Ultimately it’s a very personal question, and no-ones business but my own.
November 8, 2009 at 1:42 pm
My boss in my old job as a teacher (male) was constantly asking me when I would be having more children and infact asking all the women in the staffroom of child bearing age who were in relationships when they would be starting a family. I never thought anything much of it, but thinking about it now its pretty sexist and inappropriate really!
I get the question all the time STILL about when am I planning having baby number 3. I never planned on having my first two, I just got pregnant lol! When I say ‘no’ I get ‘ah well you have a boy and a girl, one of each, so you can stop at two!’
It is really an intrusive question yet one people ask all the time but yeah when you think about it, its really intrusive!
November 8, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Hi,
Just read through your post and couldn’t agree more, although my story is slightly different, I am 22 years old, and in a long term relationship with my fiancé, yes I am heterosexual, but no I don’t want kids yet, and although I am not against having kids, I feel I am too young to bring a child into the world just yet, I want to wait until I’m more financially stable, have things all sorted and have gone and seen some of the big wide world, so I can pass on great stories to my kids. I hate that the first thing people ask when they find out I’m engaged is “when are you going to have kids then?”. They never ask my fiancé that, they always just comment on how lucky he is to have a fiancé who is 22 (there is a 10 year age gap). Thank you for this blog, very interesting.
Alomie x
November 8, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Oh Jehefinner, I only wish people would take not yet/one day as an answer, but I’ve tried it and I’ve had further questions! And once, I said to a woman in the Asda, who I vaguely knew from a playgroup, “oh actually me and my husband have split up” and I kid you not, she said, “couldn’t you find another man to have kids with?” I was speechless!
But you are right absolutely, it is no one’s business.
And yeah the other thing you and Fiona raise – the assumption that you want at least “one of each” – jeez.
Alomie – thanks for the comment; people do make huge assumptions don’t they? Sorry you have to deal with that crap.
November 8, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Absolutely spot-on.
I had this problem a lot before I had my first (only thus far) daughter. The true answer was tht I was desperately trying to get pregnant and was having monthly weeping sessions over negative pregnancy tests for a couple of years. But that was information I wanted to share or be forced to think about at work, on the bus, in the supermarket, at parties. Sometimes I felt like saying ‘well yes my husband and I are having a lot of unprotected sex, since you asked!’ because really, questions like that are fundamentally allusions to sex which is perhaps another reason why women get them more than men do. A male boss is far less likely to feel entitled to ask such things of a male employee.
I still get the questions now about ‘number two’ but have more emotional fortitude to answer them now. Still… when it’s virtual strangers, it bugs me.
November 8, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Sorry… should have said that was NOT information I wanted to share with all and sundry.
November 9, 2009 at 3:56 pm
This is a wonderful post. I deal with this a lot. My first, and only, is 3.5 and I am married. People always ask and it forces me to explain that we would love baby #2 but I have battled issues and a miscarriage in the last 6 months. It IS so personal!!
November 11, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Great post. I think you’re right saying that women are seen to become public property when they become pregnant. No matter what your interests, work experience, life experience you fall through a vortex where stereotypes and prejudices about women, men, mothering, parenting, pregnancy, birth just deluge you. Actually, as I write that I realise it’s a disservice to women with fertility issues or women who choose not to have children. Just the fact that we can reproduce allows people to feel entitled to ask the most intimate questions and it is deemed to be socially acceptable.
I’ve just had my second son, he’s 3 months old and I am asked at least weekly by people if we are going to have any more. For me my circumstances are different from yours and from those who have commented above, but like everyone they are deeply personal to me, my partner and my children. I’ve also had many people assume that we might want another as we can’t be happy with two boys, all tied up in the questioner’s assumptions about how we treat our child because of their gender.
Look forward to reading more on the blog – very glad to have found it!
November 13, 2009 at 12:39 am
Having had unplanned twin boys, my husband has a great repsonse for those who ask “planning anymore kids?” – “We weren’t planning these ones”. No one has yet come up with a way of following through on that one. Working in the female-dominated, social part of the public service meant that he probably got as many, if not more, enquiries than I did.
I must admit that all the quips about “trying for a set of girls” did get rather up my nose (as well as blinking repetitive).
These days, as a school mum, I do sometimes get asked about having more kids but given it’s from women I know who are effectively my peer group it bothers me much less than the stranger on the street thing which always seemed unnecessarily intrusive. Fortunately the latter has largely died out as the kids have got older. I presume some poeple use it as a way to make conversation, because I cannot believe they’re actually interested in the answer – but really I’d much rather they talked about the weather!
November 13, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Oh yes, this is bugging me too at the moment. I really like that you frame it as a feminist issue.
My personal reasons for not having a second child yet are complicated, relating to my own personal head space and also the fact that my son has a genetic condition. Not stuff which is easily explained to others. Not stuff which anyone has a right to ask about.
It is interesting that there is a socially acceptable age gap between children. Anything less than 18 months seems to require explanation, as does more than about 2.5 years. Geez, why does it matter so much and why do so many people take it upon themselves to enforce it through social pressure? Ah yes, it’s our womanly duty. And embedded in it is the assumption that we’re all in stable, hetero nuclear families – and that’s all we should want.
November 18, 2009 at 4:30 pm
First I just have to say this is an excellent website – I don’t have children but I would very much like to and this is a great resource for feminist mums, so I thought I’d read up on the issues.
My experience with this kind of thing has been pretty bad – I had a couple of abortions when I was younger, and then I miscarried twice later on when I was older. I stopped trying for a bit because nothing was happening (too much pressure on myself, I think) and I got married this past summer so that took a lot of my attention anyway. I am trying again now so fingers crossed! But since I’ve been married I’ve been asked by loads of people (my bosses, my husband’s parents, close friends, fair weather friends, people I’ve only just met, etc. etc.) when I’ll be trying for one.
First, I consider it rude to ask about another person’s sex life, especially if you don’t really know them, and that’s what this is. One of my colleagues got asked once “Where was your daughter conceived?” and she answered “Do you just need the name of the place or would you like the position as well?”. But second, it’s also quite painful – I don’t know if I can, and I don’t need to be reminded of it by strangers or people I’m not that fond of. It’s the way they stand there staring when they’ve asked, too – I can’t just laugh and not answer, they’ve pretty much demanded I tell them, and they feel as though they’re entitled to know!
I don’t know, maybe I just need to suck it up a little, but when my sister’s baby died a number of years ago (her first, we didn’t know if she would be able to have any more either but I’m glad to say she went on to have another two) it occurred to me that people don’t know the reasons why a person doesn’t have a child – it might be something very tragic that they don’t need bringing up. She might have had to suffer other people (including my other sister) giving birth almost immediately after this happened (which isn’t anyone’s fault, not hers or theirs), but we could all hold our tongues and not make it any worse!
Anyway, hope I didn’t bring too much of a downer to the posting
November 18, 2009 at 6:54 pm
This was a really powerful post. Absolutely worth a read twice over.
I’ve always made sure to be very careful not to ask people when the child will come along. But I never truly realised that it might also be hurtful to even ask if there’ll be a child along. Of course with people whom you know well, it’s a little more safe to ask, but this whole idea that man+woman=immediate child needs to stop.
My boyfriend and I met at work. And in order to nip any gossip at the bud, we announced our relationship fairly early on. We’d been an item, not living together or anything, for no more than a few weeks when we went public with being an item. The immediate question was: So… will there be children? Dude! We’ve been together for mere weeks! Seriously?!?!? Who would in all earnestness be planning children after such a short time? Do people even think before they ask?
gadgetgal, that’s a really sad story. I feel for your sister. That must have been such a terrible thing to go through.
Also, your colleague’s comeback to that question was absolutely fab. I wish I could deadpan it like that. I’d probably have responded with “What? You think we only have sex once a year or something? How the hell would I know?” But then again, I’m brash like that.
November 18, 2009 at 7:25 pm
I’ve always wanted to have the gumption to answer questions like that with a Miss Manners sort of approach, or to go full on rude.
Miss Manners, when someone asks if you’re trying: “Oh, gosh, I’m sure I misheard you. Yes, the weather IS lovely today, isn’t it?” (aka willful ignorance)
When someone asks how you conceived: “We’re so flattered that you have such an interest in our son! Rest assured – we’re happy to announce his birth. We do not at this time have plans to announce his conception.”
And what I have always wanted to do when someone asks if you’re having another or any at all or anything, is just burst into tears and say “I just miscarried this morning” or something just to make them feel horrible.
November 19, 2009 at 10:38 am
Thought-provoking post. And my heart goes out to you for the grief you’re experiencing over potentially losing the chance to have more children. I know when we faced that for a time it really really hurt.
November 21, 2009 at 6:33 pm
[...] "So when are you going to have number 2 (or 3)," which is usually asked when the first gets to be about a year old, but is sometimes asked even sooner. For more insight on this particular question, check out The Question that Hurts. [...]